the fights are ridiculus!But we can't truly change a person they are who they are! It probably how they were raised! They don't really care if they are stuck doing nothing there or at home! I don't think there are any other punishments they are allowed to do! :eusashifty: :?: :!: :? :shock:

maybe there is or maybe there isnt but the fighters should be expelled frome school because if they return to school they will end up being out of school and there is such a program its an anger management group a couple of people that i knew last year went to this program and they all pretty much turned out okay and sometimes they dont it depends on why they are fighting all the time. and if that anger management group doesnt work they end up going to a pycholigist to help with there anger issues or they get medicine to control their anger.

Yeah,sometimes it comes from home! Liek my cousin was actually telling my 2nd cousin to fight back if someone hits him or makes fun of him!

Honestly, there is nothing the administrators can do. That's like trying to invent a way to preven the rain from falling. People fight for whatever reason and I don't think they need to be hauled away and put in some special program unless it is clear that they are a harm to the student body. And I mean, crystal clear. As for a handful of testosterone driven boys who feel they have something to prove amongst our peers - forget it, they'll grow out of it.

The last thing our school needs is another program to be implemented. The administrators are doing their best at restraining and punishing individuals - expulsion is unecessary in our most common fights.

Then again, I don't know how bad the fighting is getting at other schools... as long as the kids aren't shanking each other, really. laissez-fair

I totally agree if there for our safety then they should honestly, think about us instead of just hiring who ever they find because thy're inexspenisve :!:

Bravo ch3rryz1ng3r

Administrators can't hypnotise people into becoming peaceful, and they try their hardest for our good.

I agree that action should be taken on those kids that "fall through the cracks" until it's too late by intervening before the child spins out of control. Just recently, six schools (5 high schools and 1 special school) got "discipline chiefs" to handle nothing but discipline. I applaud this effort.

Clearly, for the good of all students, broader action should be taken with regard to more efficient discipline processes and counselling for those "problem" students who need it.

[quote]Clearly, for the good of all students, broader action should be taken with regard to more efficient discipline processes and counselling for those "problem" students who need it.[/quote]

Connor, I was wondering what you meant about "more efficient discipline processes"?

I have to be a bit baffled in regard to school disciplinary action sometimes. I see a defensive educational institution floundering in dealing with responsibilies that are non-educational. Should public schools really deal with discipline in a new way, or continue to punish the child or adolescent until they feel as if that is their destiny to be punished?

In my High School career, it was fairly clear that there was a clean cut division to how discipline was dealt with at Severna Park High. Certainly, while the educational institution has desires for academic and enriching purposes, the public schools will always, until it no longer becomes the definition of what is now the public school, reflect and perpetuate how children or adolscents turn out in the public schools.

It's common sense to keep tabs on certain individuals if they are trouble makers, so administrators can keep up with news given a voice is loud enough. However, administrators will always be just peace-keepers of the school. They can not be transformed into peace-makers. Besides, there are not enough of them.

[quote]Then again, I don't know how bad the fighting is getting at other schools... as long as the kids aren't shanking each other, really. laissez-fair[/quote]

Perhaps I saw a bit of more of the underworld at Severna Park High School (as odd as it sounds), but you'd be suprised to how close that gets and has gotten. CMB (Carrollten Manor Boys)? I doubt many would remember them. Given the nature of these disruptic teenagers and adults, their need for counseling was immense and the administrators had a pain on their hands for a year.

It will take a different type of job than the administrative position to deal with why and how fights break out and occur.

Great thoughts.

What I meant by "more efficient discipline processes" was that some kids are sent to the office or detention or something, but their problem isn't dealt with for several hours, even days. Then, they get out of class to sit in the office or are never truly disciplined because of the backlog of referrals and forms at some schools.

[quote]Should public schools really deal with discipline in a new way, or continue to punish the child or adolescent until they feel as if that is their destiny to be punished?[/quote]

I have seen what you're saying here. Kids who get into trouble repeatedly are sighed at and asked "what can we do with you?" type of questions by administrators. This shows that a new method for dealing with these children is needed. Before the children spin out of control, they should be counselled, whatever (I'm not a psychologist.). More punishment truly is not the answer. I've talked to some kids who [i]try[/i] to get suspended because they want to stay home. It's like rewarding them for acting up at school ("Here, Johnny, since you've been so bad, you get to stay away from school!!!"). There is a time and place for suspension/expulsion, but only in very serious or violent actions that threaten the safety of other students and staff.

A relatively unknown position inside the school system is psychologist. If I'm correct, almost every school has a student psychologist on staff -- a coordinated effort involving psychologists, guidance counselors, and administration could stem violence by attempting to change the kid's negative attitude toward school.

I agree with Connor!

The issue with student violence will always and has always been an issue with the mind-frame of adolescents. Yes, the CMB got pretty bad... But that is because there is a repetitive cycle of negativity within their lives. The school psychologist is an excellent position, if only more students knew that they had someone to talk to. Though, and I do study psychology, it is exceptionally hard to get within the mind of a troubled youth, especially one who has seen how their negative actions can feed into what they want.

Take it for someone who has been suspended (for the most inane reason of all reasons!), it truly is a treat. I feel suspension and expulsion is an easy way out, as if you're just weeding out the "bad seeds" and hoping that will solve the problem. But alas, all of our money is going into ridiculous programs and making freshman take the psats, we've got none left for working with our troubled youth.

[quote]What I meant by "more efficient discipline processes" was that some kids are sent to the office or detention or something, but their problem isn't dealt with for several hours, even days. Then, they get out of class to sit in the office or are never truly disciplined because of the backlog of referrals and forms at some schools. [/quote]

One of the problems that I think all of us are having when thinking about students who get in trouble for their conduct of any sort (disruption, violence, fights, inciting) is the difference between [i]discipline[/i] and [i]punishment[/i]. Is being sent to the office or serving time in detention taking part in discipline or punishment? I really think that a better question is does one "discipline" anyone who is seen as violent or disruptive in the public schools nowadays?

[quote]I have seen what you're saying here. Kids who get into trouble repeatedly are sighed at and asked "what can we do with you?" type of questions by administrators. This shows that a new method for dealing with these children is needed. Before the children spin out of control, they should be counselled, whatever (I'm not a psychologist.). More punishment truly is not the answer. I've talked to some kids who try to get suspended because they want to stay home. It's like rewarding them for acting up at school ("Here, Johnny, since you've been so bad, you get to stay away from school!!!"). There is a time and place for suspension/expulsion, but only in very serious or violent actions that threaten the safety of other students and staff.
[/quote]

"What can we do with you?" is right on the mark. I think we can all agree that the only way to deal with issues that occur within a student from outside negative influence is by changing the system that it occurs in to accomodate enough positive influence. What I fear (as is fact) is that the larger system, society, is considerably stronger than that of the instition of public education (as public schools are a reflection of the local residence). I overly agree that psychologists, counselors, or whomever else should have a considerable influence upon the student because influence is the key to turning most students around or to making better decisions to their own future. The problem is that there isn't enough of the right people who can have that heavy, or heavier if you will, influence on that particular youth.

What most of us recognize, as you said, is the vicious cycle of punishment and self-gratification. I've known students who have enjoyed being suspended. The limited punishments that the public school system can enact on the student is not the answer. As a matter of fact, I think one could conclude that what we call punishment can be more appropriately named a method for decreasing disruption and lowering the surface potential for harm to other students. If we were to probe deeper into the matter, we may conclude that it is still punishment though; punishment that touches the student who is being punished by excluding him from the rest of his peers and alienating from the rest of what is considered a more appropriate and healthy way of living.

[quote]A relatively unknown position inside the school system is psychologist. If I'm correct, almost every school has a student psychologist on staff -- a coordinated effort involving psychologists, guidance counselors, and administration could stem violence by attempting to change the kid's negative attitude toward school.[/quote]

The problem with the position of psychologist in the school system is the relative scale of how good they are. I think that, and as I mentioned earlier, the more people counselors, psychologists, or what have you there are, the better to reach the individual. What are your thoughts?

To play devil's advocate, I could say that you could change a kid's negative attitude toward school only as much as you can change their attitude or outlook on life. Even professionals who get paid more than any public school position have problems with children and teenagers across the psychological spectrum.

I agree with you ch3rryz1ng3r. It is an immense job to understand, let alone know, what it would take to influence the child or adolescent enough to get them to change how they think.

Public school systems feel as if they are fighting a losing battle. They know that the system has to reach outside of itself to change how a student really feels about their life [i]and[/i] their education. I fear sometimes that the reprecussions for deciding to let these students undo themselves within the school system will cause more trouble in the future. It's obviously a problem. What we have to ask ourselves are how can the, or a, system intercept these problems from occuring?

We (Brook and I) think that a smart thing to do would be to start a mentoring program for students at our school who have repeatedly gotten into trouble. It is different from Peer Mediation. While Peer Mediation is basically a one-time thing, we were hoping that a "problem student" would be "matched" to a student that would hopefully be a good influence, a guide, a tutorer if need be, but most importantly a friend. We are going to try to start this program in our school. In Peer Mediation you may still feel a little uncomfortable even though they are your fellow students. Sometimes you are not willing to confide in them the way you confide in your friends. This is why having a Mentor for an extended period of time could be more effective on the students behavior and attitude. Often times there is something more underneath the misbehavior of students. If a problem students develops a trusting friendship with there moderator, they may decided to talk about it, therefor resulting in the mentor being able to help the help resolve the problem and slowly change their behavior.

I go to old mill north and there's been quite a few fights there..and some of the people weren't even suspended longer than about a day..Which makes me want harsher punishments for students that fight. I mean, sometimes as a lot of you are saying, people are brought up that way to stand up for theirself, but i've seen many times when there is someone continuously messing with another person many days, and then it kinda all builds up, so maybe schools can catch some things before they actually happen, by stopping some bullying..that might cut down on fighting a little, but then there's always other reasons, i'm not saying good enough to fight about but "other" reasons, and that, no one has any control over, but the administrators should expel or suspend or at least give more detentions out to people that especially fight often..

Administators do not discipline students fairly. Students who get in trouble on a daily basis are not given harsh punishments like the rest of us. When a student who doesn't usually get in trouble commits a minor crime their punishment is severe. But if a student who gets in trouble regularly commits that same crime their punishment would be less severe. It just seems that administrators give students more severe punishements if they dont get in trouble a lot to encourage them to stay out of trouble. But, it also seems as if they just give the students who get into trouble regularly a minor punishment like they don't care about those troublesome students anymore.

To continue what others have said, I think that a fighting problem in schools is the responsibility of the administrators to stop in schools, but is an issue that starts at home.

I got to crofton middle school............. we havent had a real fight (AKA bloodshed) [b]in over 4 years, but, our administarators are no diffferent than any other.[/b] They could be transferred at any minute to any school in the county....would it make a difference? what I am curious to see is the steps the schools and boards are taking that arent reliant on the administrators. how many of your schools have administrators souly devoted to fights?

They seem to be doing ok at my school. One thing new this year is the Deans od Disipline. I'm not quite sure what they are besides administrators. Does anyone else have any info on them?

I attend a school where fighting is at a "zero tollerence" level. My principal will suspend you for at least one week for participating in a fight.(even instagators).High school discipline is strict enough. Maybe some schools are looser than others on discipline.

Yeah Ms. Valentine will automatically suspend you for a week usually 10 days. If it happens again she sends a referral for expulsion.