I totally agree with you! Most people are against uniforms because they take away your indivisuality!Well people pick on others cause they are different! At the last meet the board night, I heard they were doing an experiment with uniforms in california,and fights severly dropped! :lol:

I think that while uniforms take away from physical individuality, it enhances the personal one. Rather than prove that they're unique by wearing baggy pants or band Tshirts, students will learn to make their ideas and actions reflections of their self. This would create more mature and quality individuals....do you all see what I'm saying?

I think you are exacly right! I am personally a victim of not being myself, because I try to show off! I think it also makes school a more relaxed environment! So now everybody can just learn!

Links on this particular issue that should stimulate thought on the issue:

http://www.sambarpress.com/chuck/shouldst.htm (article)

http://www.debatabase.org/details.asp?topicID=59 (International Debate Education Association, "IDEA")

A good question to ask is if school uniforms would benefit the Anne Arundel County school community as a whole, or in parts?

What ages are best for school uniforms?

What are the values that uniformity would bring about in the school?

Anne Arundel County is fraught with a diverse community. The best place to start implementing school uniforms would have to be our elementary and middle schools. Children are the easiest to start teaching discipline to. Also, it is the best time to have them represent one another instead of grow differently in such drastic ways because of their status or appereance in school. In High School, many individuals have already matured into personas they do not wish to change. It would be smart to have a cut-off age for requirement of wearing school uniforms.

The biggest argument against school uniforms is that it would destroy or hinder individual expression. The biggest problem of this argument is that it brings into question of what degree do students have a right of individual expression. It is evident that students wear clothing and dress a certain way out of peer pressure and a social need to conform. As well that it is also evident that students will wear what they have available. But where do we draw the line? Does the institution of the public school matter more than the child or adolscents want to fit in or express themselves individually?

School uniforms go to the heart of the definitions, goals, and values of the current public school system. The obvious facts are that:

School Uniforms create group identity.

School Uniforms have the potential to create professionalism.

School Uniforms send a message of professionalism and impression onto the student.

School Uniforms discipline students and can do so from an early age.

So why decide not to have school uniforms?

From the second link (IDEA) under "Cons":

[quote]Uniform suppresses individualism and treats students en masse rather than encouraging teachers to recognise their different characters and abilities, and students to accept responsibility for aspects of their own lives. Uniform was better suited to an age of rote learning and military-style discipline than to the more exploratory and creative values of modern education ?¢Ç«®Çƒ˙ values which are increasingly important to the wider economy. Many schools, indeed many countries, manage to maintain high school standards of discipline, community and academic performance without adopting uniform. [/quote]

I think that while school uniforms do indeed create discipline, uniformity, and conformity inside a school, at what point should we decide that a student is well enough to take care of themselves and still keep their discipline while wearing what they want.

Some of the problems that school uniforms face is in the less affluent communities. In the first link, there is the problem of gangs and expressing their individuality by their dress code. That would create a problem of expression, which would happen in schools or areas of harsher social environments such as the ghettoes, projects, or of the like. While nicer schools, much like Severna Park, could do much better in compliance with wearing uniforms.

A point that can be made is that only certain schools can be successful in having students actually comply or not feel alienated by the prospect of the school uniform. Obviously in less disciplined areas and where there is a concentration of more ill-tempered children and adolescents you will find more of a problem in school and possibly more of a need to individually express themselves.

But let us not forget of the psychology of the youth. An understanding of the psychology of the young and the need for education to be academic should result ultimately in school uniforms with the goal of benefiting the students. The goal should never be to have school uniforms because people simply dislike what children or teenagers wear. If public schools were to conduct themselves like a business they would have school uniforms that resemble the real-world outifts of businessmen and women. If the public schools really valued education they would cut out the problem of the child or teenager entertaining themselves with the idea that, while they are in school, they are there to look good for others and themselves. It's apparent in teenage psychology that most people want to fit in somehow to some group and do not feel good unless they are like other people. Then shouldn't it be apparent to cut out this extra fluff that gets in the way of education, or is this some type of "education" that does not have academics or learning as its goal?

After all, public education does reflect the public.

I understand all those great points made as benifets of school uniforms, however as a high school student myself, I have an objection to make. I don't dress to conform, and I certainly don't do things to make other people like me. I have friends that like me no matter how I look, and I am content with who I am as a human being. It isn't so much the prospect of not being able to wear the latest fashions that disturbs me, but the principle of uniforms. I guess you could say that this is the classic stubborn, world-revolves-around-me adolescant view, but I believe strongly in being able to wear what you want, whether it is a black arm band to oppose the Vietnam war, or a t-shirt that has a picture of Bush and says "Weapon of Mass Destruction." I understand the view of school administrators about school dress [i]codes[/i], but I think that uniforms go too far. So many demands are placed on teens, especially at my school (Severna Park), to get straight A's, and be involved in extracurriculars, and get into a great undergraduate college, and then a great graduate college, and get a great job, and make lots of money. Being able to wear what we want is a way to gain control over an aspect of our busy, busy lives.

and we're not saying that everyone does! But woudn't you love to get everyone away from showing their boxers and/or to much skin! That is another point! And you don't have to type this or even tell anyone! Just answer it for yourself,ok? Did you ever perhaps dress inapproprietley? A good majority of students on our levels has at least once,I think! Be Honest! I know I have and I'm wrong to wear it! that's why I am more appropriet now!

And yes this might only be at my school and feeder school, but Does anyone else agree with me?

no matter what my personal taste or style is, to a certain extent i don't believe that the school should dictate your wardrobe. like i said in my earlier post, i understand the necessity of dress codes, it's uniforms that bother me. codes are needed to keep fashions in line, but you don't have to go to the extreme of uniforms.

well what other choice do you have!If you say khakis and a white shirt the girls can still get reveiling khakis and a way too tight or short shirt! The Kids will find a loop-hole if there is one! We need more of a firm administration! The teachers and principles let us slide for things that are totally wrong! Last year there was someone with basicly a tube top and a strin around the neck that didn't get in trouble! When I wore shorts that were in the upper section of "mid-thigh" and got yelled at! The guys at my school have thier boxers showing all the time the croch section of their pants are below their knees!This school board needs action,and it needs it [b]now![/b]

at our school, sure sometimes there are some a-little-too-revealing clothes, but for the most part people adhere to the "three finger width" rule for shirts, and the midthigh rule for shorts, etc. i personally am not offended by revealing clothing, at least not as offended i'd be if i was told what i could wear and what i couldn't. i just don't really care about what other people are wearing; i don't really notice. also, parents would never appreciate buying a whole new set of clothes for their kids, and all the clothes they had before being pushed to the back of the closet only to be worn during the weekend. just any way i look at it, i could never support uniforms. unless, of course, i was assigned to that side in a debate for speech & debate class, and then i would have to support it or forfeit my grade. but that's the only instance.

i don't think u r seeing my point!

let me see if i understand what you are saying.
you support uniforms because kids can't be counted on to use discretion in their style choices, and also to prevent teasing, etc.
if that is your point, i do see what you are saying, i just disagree. if that is not your point, could you perhaps explain it again clearly for me?

nevermind!I guess i was wrong! but don't you understand that everyone could find a loop hole! weeither have to go all the way or not at all!

an opinion can't be wrong. you did have valid arguments for having uniforms, i just don't necessarily agree with the fundamental reasoning behind your argument: that we should even dictate at all what kids should wear.

Ok the last ten posts were between me and victoria,is anyone else like to interject! Especially if you agree with me,cause I can't think of how to explain it!...just kidding!This is an unlimited number post maximum! Feel free to interject!The site isn't neccasarily about only a two person debate!

Well, I personally do not feel that uniforms would be a bad thing, but i do understand where many people would. I think that uniforms would help me personally because i always feel like i have a closet of clothes and nothing to wear. Unfortunately, uniforms dont solve all the problems people think they will.

Some people feel that if we all have to wear the same clothes, people won't get made fun of because of their clothes. This assumption couldnt be further from the truth. I had a friend who graduated from Spalding, where uniforms are worn, and instead of being made fun of for her t-shirt or jeans, she was made fun of because she only had one pair of brown shoes. Some girls wore a different pair for everyday of the week, but my friend wore the same pair everyday. There will always be ways for students to pick on each other.

Also, i feel that it is very important for students to be able to express themselves in a healthy way. There is a boy i pass in the hallways and have seen him wearing various political t-shirts that really just brighten my day. Its nice to see someone who is paying attention to what is going on in the world. If students aren't able to express themselves through their clothes, how are they going to do it?? My fear would be that other ways wouldnt be as healthy as picking out an outfit to suit your mood.

A third reason that many people support uniforms is the fact that many students dress in a way that is inappropriate for any setting other that the privacy of their own home. Guys walking around with their belt around their knees and boxers for the world to see, and girls with skirts so short you hope that you dont end up behind them on the stairs. Unfortunately, as was stated, the only way to solve this is to crack down on the dress code. Even with uniforms these things would be possible, and would be just as vulgar as they are now. So as I said, as much of a relief as it would be for me to be able to know that i wouldnt have to spend half of my morning trying on 20 different shirts, I do not think it would be beneficial to the majority of students.

Personally, I don't care if my school chooses to have uniforms. When I think about all of the pros and cons about uniforms they come out almost even. I mean usually there are more pros than cons; yet i am more for the con side.

yes "ostrage"..... im more of a reader

i would have to say i agree with what your talking about. I understand, especially the fact that if the law says not to do something, teens are tempted to do it for some reason. I see and understand where both of you are coming from.

People will always find loopholes. Yes. Do people always try to find them? No. In our adolescent stage, we get rebellious [or at least I do] because one- our parents have too much control over our lives
or
two-we are told so many times about one thing and are reminded so much about it that we feel a need to rebel.
So, no matter what happens, people will rebel, its our nature. Oh, and with the less fights in Cali., that was because people didn't display gang colors in school, yet the fights continued outside of it. Believe me, we just got a teacher who transfered from there. :wink:
I wonder if IB students will be told to wear uniforms? I would so hate that, IB controls enough of my life already. :evil:
Responses are much welcomed.

I went to a school with uniforms before coming to Severna Park High, and it was really nice being able to wear a t-shirt instead of a shirt and tie. I don't hate uniforms, I just don't think having them in public schools is such a good idea.

Regards
Brian :)

Not all uniforms are a collar and tie! Most are something like khaki's and a polo!

But still wearing a t-shirt is better than a polo shirt in my opinion.

Regards
Brian :)

some schools that have uniforms just make you wear a certain t-shirt with jeans, i mean it still sucks, but it's not as bad as having to wear a tie!

i have a question for those who have had uniforms before. does the uniform dictate every aspect of the outfit? as in, can someone still express themselves in their dress, or are there no areas for creativity? because the supreme court has set precedents allowing students to express their opinions and beliefs through clothing (tinker v. des moines), so a uniform inhibiting that would be in violation of those previous rulings. sure, there are ways of expression other than clothing, and i personally do not wear my heart on my sleeve, literally, but there are ways of expression other than through the press, yet no one is allowed to inhibit that. doesn't clothing fall into freedom of expression? like i said earlier, although it is regulated to a point, students are guaranteed with certain rights by the judicial branch (look it up). this is one of them.

I went to a school (which was public for military kids) that wore uniforms
the uniform was blue shorts and a blue shirt with the school emblem on it
you actually had a variety to wear in the school there were 4 different uniform shirts.
this worked alot better bc. student s were only caring about personality.
if you read the [i][u]Giver[/u][/i] the ideas of sameness are taken into extreme but this helps with people understanding uniform policies

School uniforms would not be that great of an idea. One of the first thing you they teach when you start school is induviduallity. Now you want to take that away? THen there has to be some cost involved and not every family could afford the cost of uniforms for several children. If the school provides the uniforms were is it taking money from? But I haven't heard much talk of the uniforms lately.

The cost of the uniform would actually be better because it is less clothes you would have to buy ! Think about it, you have a different outfit for everyday of the week! If you have 1 outfit for 5 days then it will reduce cost!

And indivisuallity! If you were a goth and always peppy, what would that say? You are Peppy! If you are preppy and always glumy?then you are a dippressed person! Do you see what I am saying! Your indivisuallity is you personallity! It doesn't matter what you wear! I wear jeans and a T-shirt and I am considered different because I am always bouncing off the walls! 8):D :P :roll:

i'm not saying that the clothes make the man, so to speak, i'm just saying that, in principle, if a student wants to express their beliefs, opinions, or whatever through their clothing, they should be able to. i know that your personality is what makes up who you are, and i know that clothes usually don't involve individuality, since most people wear clothes similar to other people. however, if a kid wants to wear a shirt, just let him wear the shirt. it's only a shirt.

[quote="ostrichlady"]The cost of the uniform would actually be better because it is less clothes you would have to buy ! Think about it, you have a different outfit for everyday of the week! If you have 1 outfit for 5 days then it will reduce cost![/quote]

Ok consider this scenario:
I have enough clothes right now to wear for about 2 weeks. Not too much because my family cannot afford to spend too much money, but I have a decent amount. All of a sudden school uniforms come in and I have to buy at least 5 sets of uniforms (unless I washed the same clothes everyday, but then that would waste money on my family's water and electricity). Thats 5 new sets of clothing I have to buy, plus I have pretty much wasted money on all the other clothing I bought prior to this new policy, which would be extremely hard on my family's already tight budget.

And I agree with Drew, we are taught to be individual and express ourselves (in a positive manner of course), but then you want to strip that away from the students?

That is a great point Roo. The economics behind it could have effect that haven't been thought about. These things should be clearly thought out, like the gov't does. If a state accepts a categorical grant for a road, they have to prepare a environmental impact statemnet to see what the effect of building the road there would be.

Im honestly neutral to the idea....

Im presuaded both ways with the "individualism/expressing oneself" apperence vs. "everyone is equal" apperence. I wouldn't mind uniforms, especially if they are financed for me. But on the other hand, wearing the same thing EVERYDAY would kinda suck. But because everyone is doing it, it wouldn't suck so bad.......(these thoughts just keep spining in my head).

Hi. I'm new here. As for the uniforms, I'm in the middle, but can't we compromise? Like wearing school unforms and being able to express ourselves? Because on one hand, uniforms would cut off our indiviuality by not letting us express ourselves through clothes. But on the other hand, though, it would stop fights, and no one would tease others about what they are wearing. Also we wouldn't freak out what to wear in the mornings.

~Phangirl of the Opera

[quote="Phangirl of the Opera"]can't we compromise? [/quote]

What kind of compromise do you have in mind?

The only kind I can think of are uniform options, or 'dress down Friday'. But uniforms, I think, could be a blessing and a curse. I can't think of any unsaid reasons, except that people could deface their uniforms by like rolling up shirts/skirts/pants/whatever. Stuff like that would be bound to happen.

I mean possibly having a group of students to design the uniform and then having the Board of Education approve it.

~Phangirl of the Opera

Well, what kidn of design would the students make? Because, being honest, I don't think they'd go for anything that most students would design. Plus, that adds cost, probably.

Well, how about putting a budget on the student group? And putting down guidelines for the uniform design.

~Phangirl of the Opera

Yea, that'd be cool. Like, if the students got to pick what color the uniforms were. But unlikely, since we hopefully won't be getting uniforms anyway.

That would be awesome! :D

~Phangirl of the Opera

[color=darkred]well i think that if u fit into a clique and want to show yourself, many people show theirselves through their clothing with uniforms people couldnt express theirselves and fights would still break out because students would try to make their uniforms more like them and people would still pick on other people. ex: if your emo and want to express yourself then u wear band accessories, black, red, purplr, eyeliner(lots), skater shoes, lots of accessories on your wrists to name a few then u want to wear that stuff to show you. the same as if your prep then u wear preppy clothes :?[/color]

[color=darkred]well if a few students make the uniform designs then they would only be likeable to a few students! i think different cliques should make different designd and let the students pick which design they would like to order so u would have a variety of uniforms in the school and people would be happier![/color]

[color=olive][color=green] At my school they were talking about school unifroms because of some students were breaking the rules when it came to the student directory. Many people want them but i do not, i think it would be hard to show your individuality wearing somthing the school made for you. Also for my school it would be alot of money because our school is over populated.[b] ALSO, [/b] [u]i read the first page of this post and many people say it would help stop the fights/teasing in school. Well i just wanna tell those people to think about somthing, if we got uniform i think people would start making fun of people personalitys. [b]that would be even wrost![/b][/u]
just somthing to think about
xoPAiGE MARiE13xo
** no song of the moment** :roll: [/color][/color]

First of all, I do not support school uniforms.

i want to repeat Victoria's point because I think she had a good questionn and no one in support of uniforms has addressed it yet. She discussed the legal right to student expression through clothing because of certain important supreme court cases. Especially considering that we are discussing PUBLIC schools, how restrictive in terms of free speech is a uniform? and remember, this case confirmed that clothing is a form of free speech, so an answer is NOT that we should express our opinions restricted to using only our voices/alternative means.

wow... long arguement

and I'd like to point out a few things :?

Uniforms [b]DO NOT[/b] stop teasing
even for a 2nd grader
I went to school at St. Andrews for 2nd grade (good food)
And I will always remember this one kid that picked on everyone
and St. Andrews had uniforms

and thinking about it, the next thing to your clothes is you

Also, yes, a lot of people at my school do go passed that little line called the dress code
I, not being one of them (I get on my friends about their shirts being to darn short ) find it dumb that they can get away with that and I can't wear a camisole but thats something a little overlookable

You know what they're like and they will find a loophole no matter what the heck you try and do about it

Also, I [color=red]despise[/color] - since [i]hate[/i] is such a strong word- [color=red][i]sameness[/i][/color]

It's a matter of taking what freedom we have in school, a place where we are 180 days of the 12 years we have in school at the begining of our lives
I, personaly, am a lazy, straight A, backgroundish, observent little(figurative) person
And I were the cloth to match and I love that I'm able to do that (I'm in love with my jeans, thank you very much)

(plus it would be a waste to the clothes I have that I don't have the

Also, Phangirl of the Opera (Hi S.S. - name fits you)

It's too much trouble to find the design and colors that everyone will like
Cause no one will ever agree on something like that

Proof: One Friday morning, our class was asked (as the others) to decide on school colors and a school mascot
We never even got to the mascot, because our class couldn't decide on the colors to a majority and we got too loud about it

hehe, ranting
thats about it for now

as you can tell, I'm very much against it

~~Also, as a side note, This is Sam , for all you Central Middle School people here

I must say, awesome arguments going on here. Fact of the matter is that this is a [i]public school system.[/i] Having the government enforce dress codes on the general population is for the Japanese- It may make for great fantasy, but not liberty. I wear provocative shirts to school every week, each time inspiring people to question and imagine the power of their freedoms of expression. If that were taken away, I would find it to be an [i]attack[/i] upon what I stand for.

But just so you guys know- I love the idea of school uniforms, just not the mandatoriness part of it.

i have to say i dont want uniforms. I like to express myself with my clothes. [no there not bad] I dont want to wear the same thing everyone else is. I want to be different.. I get compliments on my clothes and it really makes my day. :D

same here
(although I do like thid idea of it, if I think about it... I just wouldn't want to wear them)

We should defenitly not have school uniforms, all of are teachers are saying how they want us to be unique and different, and what do you think school uniforms should do that. BE UNIQE!!!!! :roll: :twisted: :P

Wow! All of these arguments are fantastic! So then, if statistically it could be proven that uniforms helped reduce violence in schools, would that change your opinion?

No, I'd still want my indeviduality (I know I spelled that wrong)

I guess for a lot of people it is the battle between security and freedoms. But how important is the security and how important is the freedom? At what point is a uniform too restrictive, vs. having a stricter dress code? and can a dress code ever fulfill the same purpose?

a dress code is diff, if the purpose of a uniform is to eliminate differences through clothing. But it would probably help so we dont go to the extreme with uniforms.

how would a uniform give security? :?